Must the alternative to mindfulness be some kind of zombie existence, a living death? That’s not cool. And frankly, I don’t believe that’s how it works—so often we stumble on beauty, grace and insight in our darkest and ugliest moments. It’s ALL life, every minute of it, for everyone, everywhere.
Such a great pleasure talking with you, Kim - you're warmth and compassion run deep and true. Thank you, it's been an honor, and I look forward to more collabs. ❤💙💚
Same right back to you Troy, I only wish we were closer so the talking and hanging could be more frequent. But yes!...we have a fun collab in the works, so excited about it, and no doubt more thereafter. Congrats on your new position, I'm sure it's filling your days (and inbox!) with lots of good reading. Just tell the team there are Lamb addicts over here so you need some free time to keep your fans from going into withdrawal. xo
Thank you, Alisa - "nesting" was a surprising and lovely result of this conversation - Kim's such a gentle witness herself. The Nikita Gill poem she found touched me very much. 💛
Oh I love this - thank you, Kim! "And if someone is sensitive, they are born with something more precious that diamonds inside themselves." How different might we all be if we treasured sensitivity instead of exploiting and shaming it. 🕊️🤍💮
It is quite wonderful to get to meet you, Troy, so to speak, and to see that you are both as wonderful as I imagined and more! Thank you to both you and Kim for making this shared moment possible and accessible to us all; there's more things we have in common, there's the difference that makes me want to know more. There's the overall sense of seeking connection through and for our sensitive parts, and the hope of finding a space for our shared humanity. This made me think of the Internal Family Systems by Dick Schwartz; I'm not fluent in his model but I think that the non-pathologising approach also offers a way to think about our struggles and our attempts to manage them in a more compassionate way. In a very unexpected way, I am finding this mindset on this platform, very much through both you and Kim ( as well as others); for that and the joy your writing brings to me, thank you Troy💛
This is a keen observation Mya... I don't know if it's just an example of "frequency illusion" (a cognitive bias in which a person notices a specific concept, word, or product more frequently after recently becoming aware of it) or if there is an actual movement happening over here but I, too, have been feeling/seeing an escalation of non-pathologising, symbiotic, inclusive thinking where all parts of ourselves (and our communities) are welcome and necessary.
Yes, wouldn’t that be utterly amazing ? I think that there has to be a shift of some sort, and to think that it was actually ok to hold on to our sensitive souls, our quirks and hopes …🥰
Thank you so much for your kind words, Mya. I had not heard of the Internal Family Systems but will definitely look it up - and I think you are absolutely right that at least in our little corner of Substack, we are finding a gentleness and support that is unlike anything else I've ever felt, in life or online. And of course you are a big part of that - the haikus you wrote inspired by my words awhile back are still pinned up above my desk. 🩷❤️💜
Beloveds, what an absolute joy it is to hear you both cover such deep and interesting topics, I could have enjoyed many hours more… I so loved hearing Troy speak about rhetoric and his learnings, there. Not to mention his fantastic teacher. But it’s such an interesting way to learn about those incredibly subtle ‘ins’ to deep understanding that are often available to us, but that, just as often, are missed…
It makes perfect sense that my deep and timeless love for Lamb is, at least in part, a reflection of my deep and timeless love for MTF.
What a beautiful pairing you two make. I would just like to say that if you guys started a podcast where you discuss all the things, I would not be mad about it!
I felt the same way Chloe. I had already spent so much time falling in love with Lamb that when the time came to share space with Troy, I had a hard time not feeling like he was there too, with baby birds in his lap, of course.
Haha! A Mr. T and Ms. K podcast. Hmmmmmm. Troy, after we've played in the sandbox a bit with our first project together, could be fun to visit this radical idea... though why not work with the power of three's and also have a Ms. C?! ;)
Strangely enough, I was actually quite nervous going into our conversation - not because of Kim of course, but just, you know - *EYES* on me - and she made me feel so comfortable and kept me (mostly) on track despite my realizing I'm a world class ditherer...🤣🫠😵💫
Kim is a treasure and a love... 💜 Thank you so much my dear Chloe, you know I feel the same. ❤️
Eyes are a terrifying prospect, and all the best people are ditherers (me, I'm a ditherer 😂) because there's a lot of thinking and feeling going on!! 💜
Kimberly and Troy - wow. Thank you for this excellent conversation that shed light where we need it to shine!
Kim, your interviewing skills are exceptional. You have a wonderful ability to draw out a difficult conversation with gentleness and a wide lens. You are so easy to listen to while also teaching important stuff at the same time. Well done.
Troy, I appreciate you sharing so much of your heart and your life with us. It is an honor to hear your story, just as it's inspiring to see you rise above a lot of shit (family, booze, narrow-minded thinking) to show the rest of us how to human. I want to hunt down your creative writing teachers, shame on them, and punch them in the nose!
Your reminder for us to honor and meet people where they are, regardless of their situation, is of vital importance. It seems we need this now more than ever and your conversation around doing so was deeply moving.
Haha! Donna, you just made me laugh out loud. Love the vision of you clobbering Troy's teachers. ;)
What generous feedback. I can't say I'm an expert at interviewing, and not quite sure about the "rules" (I'm sure they exist) but I do love connecting with humans and learning about all the winding, layered paths that lead them into a deeper connection with themselves, their communities and their truth. So much gratitude for you taking the time to listen and share your feedback. x
Thank you Donna! Kim really is a fantastic interviewer, so compassionate and easy to open up to. Despite all my stammering and tangents, I'm glad something of my message landed for you - we birds must feather together... 😘❤️⭐
Thoreau is a great inspiration of mine, "sons" of Emerson like Walt Whitman - their message is timeless. I'm loving my slow read of Song of Myself and finding his ideas popping up all over... Thanks A!!
Apr 5·edited Apr 6Liked by Kimberly Warner, Mr. Troy Ford
Omg, omg, omg. I finally got to listen to this. And, if it's at all possible, I love this conversation even more than I had known I would. With every new topic, every new gem, I thought, This is the thing I'll keep with me. This is the thing I'll grow from. This is the thing I'll comment on.
This exchange is bursting with gifts. Troy, sharing your journey with anxiety, from obliterating the voices to mindfulness and sobriety, and with not experiencing the encouragement and pride from those who should have been holding you up to holding others up, is among them. So, too, your wisdom in seeing that there must be an honored space for those not feeling alive and well and awake and on a journey among the "wellness culture". This and your utter disbelief that anyone would choose to not support trans people just speaks to the beauty of you that anyone who didn't/doesn't hold you up is missing, to their own detriment.
Kimberly, your capacity to see others and what they offer--to hold them up--is such a treat. I teared up when you read that poem. It does SO capture Troy and his nest building and placing others back in their nests.
Both of you help me want to be more me. And I don't think there's a greater gift we can give each other than that. So thank you both.
And, Troy, thank you for the mention of the expansion sculpture and the shoutout to Xavier Gadfly and Jessica Jane! May XG and JJ long keep their observing eyes and ears wide open. ♥️🎁🔥
I'm starting to think that Troy is like one of those deep wells that never runs dry. Hard-earned, mineral-rich water, endlessly waiting to surface and hydrate our soul-parched society.
Thank you for such a beautiful comment Holly. Your own well runs deep, pools of generous reflection and light are abundant in that kind heart of yours.
Oh thank you my dear, you do make me feel seen and heard - and Kim's got a great gift in her gentle questions, and yes! That Nikita Gill poem! Both of you are the reason I'm on Substack - I'm rather astonished, actually, that after so many years of calling into the void of social media, that it was not something I was doing wrong, but the venues - to have found such dear friends and comrades here feels like real magic. Super spies 4ever! 😘🤣❤️
I know, right? I just love that quote. I love anytime someone picks apart a seemingly harmless word (mindfulness can't have a downside right?) but when it's in the context of a culture and industry that sees anything but as a worthless existence, then we have a problem!
So, open and vulnerable on both your parts, actually--the exchange--and I could go on and on--but as, part of my writing life, teaching has been a large part and those two teachers who shut you, Mr. Troy Ford, down were doing the opposite of what a creative writing teacher needs to be about. So many authors are teaching when that's exactly what they should not be doing! Here is only one note about this broad and deep interview.
Thank you, Mary! In my work as a critic with Pencilhouse, our prime directive is to be sure our feedback encourages the writer to continue writing, rather than stun them into silence - lord know I've felt that first hand... 💙
Such a great pleasure talking with you, Kim - you're warmth and compassion run deep and true. Thank you, it's been an honor, and I look forward to more collabs. ❤💙💚
Same right back to you Troy, I only wish we were closer so the talking and hanging could be more frequent. But yes!...we have a fun collab in the works, so excited about it, and no doubt more thereafter. Congrats on your new position, I'm sure it's filling your days (and inbox!) with lots of good reading. Just tell the team there are Lamb addicts over here so you need some free time to keep your fans from going into withdrawal. xo
Loved listening to you, Troy. Such an easy, open and honest conversation between the two of you 🤗
You connect so many poignant, beautiful, and harrowing dots in this interview... so many nests.💚
Thank you, Alisa - "nesting" was a surprising and lovely result of this conversation - Kim's such a gentle witness herself. The Nikita Gill poem she found touched me very much. 💛
I just stumbled upon this explanation of Nikita Gill's poem. (I was looking for the actual poem because I'm lazy and didn't want to type it out from my hard copy.) But this is quite beautiful too: https://thoughtcatalog.com/nikita-gill/2017/07/this-is-why-your-soft-heart-is-really-needed/
Oh I love this - thank you, Kim! "And if someone is sensitive, they are born with something more precious that diamonds inside themselves." How different might we all be if we treasured sensitivity instead of exploiting and shaming it. 🕊️🤍💮
I’m glad it’s not only me!! Look forward to listening.
It is quite wonderful to get to meet you, Troy, so to speak, and to see that you are both as wonderful as I imagined and more! Thank you to both you and Kim for making this shared moment possible and accessible to us all; there's more things we have in common, there's the difference that makes me want to know more. There's the overall sense of seeking connection through and for our sensitive parts, and the hope of finding a space for our shared humanity. This made me think of the Internal Family Systems by Dick Schwartz; I'm not fluent in his model but I think that the non-pathologising approach also offers a way to think about our struggles and our attempts to manage them in a more compassionate way. In a very unexpected way, I am finding this mindset on this platform, very much through both you and Kim ( as well as others); for that and the joy your writing brings to me, thank you Troy💛
This is a keen observation Mya... I don't know if it's just an example of "frequency illusion" (a cognitive bias in which a person notices a specific concept, word, or product more frequently after recently becoming aware of it) or if there is an actual movement happening over here but I, too, have been feeling/seeing an escalation of non-pathologising, symbiotic, inclusive thinking where all parts of ourselves (and our communities) are welcome and necessary.
Is it possible for kindness to reach critical mass? Deep down, I've always thought/hoped the answer is yes.
Yes, wouldn’t that be utterly amazing ? I think that there has to be a shift of some sort, and to think that it was actually ok to hold on to our sensitive souls, our quirks and hopes …🥰
Yes, it seems to be gaining in strength and I am hopeful 💚
Thank you so much for your kind words, Mya. I had not heard of the Internal Family Systems but will definitely look it up - and I think you are absolutely right that at least in our little corner of Substack, we are finding a gentleness and support that is unlike anything else I've ever felt, in life or online. And of course you are a big part of that - the haikus you wrote inspired by my words awhile back are still pinned up above my desk. 🩷❤️💜
Awww! I love this Troy! Can you share one of Mya's haikus here?
OMG yes! Here's both of the ones she wrote based on lines from my posts, the whole sequence was title The Autumn Sun - here's a link: https://myadexter.substack.com/p/the-autumn-sun
Soy hopeless, mon Dieu!
Babbling through the autumn suns,
Bambies and bead ferns ~
Como un bébé
crawling in the autumn sun
it makes my heart sway ~
Wow. Ok, going back to the original link now!
That’s quite surreal and most definitely a joy to read : thank you Troy! 💜💚💜
Beloveds, what an absolute joy it is to hear you both cover such deep and interesting topics, I could have enjoyed many hours more… I so loved hearing Troy speak about rhetoric and his learnings, there. Not to mention his fantastic teacher. But it’s such an interesting way to learn about those incredibly subtle ‘ins’ to deep understanding that are often available to us, but that, just as often, are missed…
It makes perfect sense that my deep and timeless love for Lamb is, at least in part, a reflection of my deep and timeless love for MTF.
What a beautiful pairing you two make. I would just like to say that if you guys started a podcast where you discuss all the things, I would not be mad about it!
I felt the same way Chloe. I had already spent so much time falling in love with Lamb that when the time came to share space with Troy, I had a hard time not feeling like he was there too, with baby birds in his lap, of course.
Haha! A Mr. T and Ms. K podcast. Hmmmmmm. Troy, after we've played in the sandbox a bit with our first project together, could be fun to visit this radical idea... though why not work with the power of three's and also have a Ms. C?! ;)
I’m in, obviously x
👍 The mind boggles! 🤪
Strangely enough, I was actually quite nervous going into our conversation - not because of Kim of course, but just, you know - *EYES* on me - and she made me feel so comfortable and kept me (mostly) on track despite my realizing I'm a world class ditherer...🤣🫠😵💫
Kim is a treasure and a love... 💜 Thank you so much my dear Chloe, you know I feel the same. ❤️
Eyes are a terrifying prospect, and all the best people are ditherers (me, I'm a ditherer 😂) because there's a lot of thinking and feeling going on!! 💜
There it is! Our podcast name: The Ditherers.
Kimberly and Troy - wow. Thank you for this excellent conversation that shed light where we need it to shine!
Kim, your interviewing skills are exceptional. You have a wonderful ability to draw out a difficult conversation with gentleness and a wide lens. You are so easy to listen to while also teaching important stuff at the same time. Well done.
Troy, I appreciate you sharing so much of your heart and your life with us. It is an honor to hear your story, just as it's inspiring to see you rise above a lot of shit (family, booze, narrow-minded thinking) to show the rest of us how to human. I want to hunt down your creative writing teachers, shame on them, and punch them in the nose!
Your reminder for us to honor and meet people where they are, regardless of their situation, is of vital importance. It seems we need this now more than ever and your conversation around doing so was deeply moving.
Thank you both so much.
Haha! Donna, you just made me laugh out loud. Love the vision of you clobbering Troy's teachers. ;)
What generous feedback. I can't say I'm an expert at interviewing, and not quite sure about the "rules" (I'm sure they exist) but I do love connecting with humans and learning about all the winding, layered paths that lead them into a deeper connection with themselves, their communities and their truth. So much gratitude for you taking the time to listen and share your feedback. x
Thank you Donna! Kim really is a fantastic interviewer, so compassionate and easy to open up to. Despite all my stammering and tangents, I'm glad something of my message landed for you - we birds must feather together... 😘❤️⭐
We are your new family...so buckle up😉❤!!
That opening quote reminds me of Thoreau somehow. Great to see and hear you guys talking together!
It's all life, we best live it rich and deep, every moment of it.
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Troy and Thoreau are distant cousins. :) Thanks for listening/reading Alexander!
no surprise at all! 😅
Thoreau is a great inspiration of mine, "sons" of Emerson like Walt Whitman - their message is timeless. I'm loving my slow read of Song of Myself and finding his ideas popping up all over... Thanks A!!
Omg, omg, omg. I finally got to listen to this. And, if it's at all possible, I love this conversation even more than I had known I would. With every new topic, every new gem, I thought, This is the thing I'll keep with me. This is the thing I'll grow from. This is the thing I'll comment on.
This exchange is bursting with gifts. Troy, sharing your journey with anxiety, from obliterating the voices to mindfulness and sobriety, and with not experiencing the encouragement and pride from those who should have been holding you up to holding others up, is among them. So, too, your wisdom in seeing that there must be an honored space for those not feeling alive and well and awake and on a journey among the "wellness culture". This and your utter disbelief that anyone would choose to not support trans people just speaks to the beauty of you that anyone who didn't/doesn't hold you up is missing, to their own detriment.
Kimberly, your capacity to see others and what they offer--to hold them up--is such a treat. I teared up when you read that poem. It does SO capture Troy and his nest building and placing others back in their nests.
Both of you help me want to be more me. And I don't think there's a greater gift we can give each other than that. So thank you both.
And, Troy, thank you for the mention of the expansion sculpture and the shoutout to Xavier Gadfly and Jessica Jane! May XG and JJ long keep their observing eyes and ears wide open. ♥️🎁🔥
I'm starting to think that Troy is like one of those deep wells that never runs dry. Hard-earned, mineral-rich water, endlessly waiting to surface and hydrate our soul-parched society.
Thank you for such a beautiful comment Holly. Your own well runs deep, pools of generous reflection and light are abundant in that kind heart of yours.
Oh thank you my dear, you do make me feel seen and heard - and Kim's got a great gift in her gentle questions, and yes! That Nikita Gill poem! Both of you are the reason I'm on Substack - I'm rather astonished, actually, that after so many years of calling into the void of social media, that it was not something I was doing wrong, but the venues - to have found such dear friends and comrades here feels like real magic. Super spies 4ever! 😘🤣❤️
A comment before I listen/read: what an amazing opening quote at the top by Troy! 🤗
I know, right? I just love that quote. I love anytime someone picks apart a seemingly harmless word (mindfulness can't have a downside right?) but when it's in the context of a culture and industry that sees anything but as a worthless existence, then we have a problem!
👍
Yeah, very much agree. Well said.
🙏
So, open and vulnerable on both your parts, actually--the exchange--and I could go on and on--but as, part of my writing life, teaching has been a large part and those two teachers who shut you, Mr. Troy Ford, down were doing the opposite of what a creative writing teacher needs to be about. So many authors are teaching when that's exactly what they should not be doing! Here is only one note about this broad and deep interview.
Thank you, Mary! In my work as a critic with Pencilhouse, our prime directive is to be sure our feedback encourages the writer to continue writing, rather than stun them into silence - lord know I've felt that first hand... 💙
I bet you're an incredible literary critic Troy. The authors landing in your lap are lucky to have/feel your encouragement. No stun guns allowed!