As always, Kimberly, your guest gave me more courage and became another instrument in my own healing and acceptance. Thank you Michael. I subscribed to The Curious Platypus.
Thank you Linda. I am so happy to hear that. I wishing you luck, strength, and acceptance on your healing journey. And thank you for subscribing! That is much appreciated. If you get to it, I hope you enjoy the Chronic Pain series. :)
What a fantastic conversation! Kimberly, as I've told you before, your skills as an interviewer are excellent. You have the ability to relate to your guest and make them feel comfortable which lends itself to a deeper conversation.
As someone who has worked with folks in pain for the last 30 years I found this interview very valuable, just as I gained new perspective when I read Michael's chronic pain series. The idea of pain hurting but not causing harm is so important and can often be difficult to communicate to patients who, understandably, just want the pain to go away. It was great to hear it discussed this way.
Michael, to hear you say the pain has helped you flourish internally is amazing. It's a small percentage of the population who are able to reach this meaningful conclusion. I hope that, moving forward, you are able to continue to relate to the back pain as a path to growth. It's too bad it's only in hindsight that we can see the internal change. If we could SEE it as it's happening it would make it more bearable!
The way you two talked about healing is very moving. I agree that healing is a movement inward toward our true self and sometimes it has little to do with the physical symptoms that are showing up. As you said, the hard truth of this is that sometimes we can do a great deal of healing without budging the physical symptoms, which certainly sucks in the moment!
Michael, I hope you look back on this interview and recognize the many gifts that are on display... your maturity, inquiring nature, ability to be clear about the situation and the likelihood that you will help many people in your life through your writing and work...all of this will take you a long way.
Donna your generous heart is deeply appreciated! And thank you for offering such kind words about my interviewing—of course I exit every session feeling inadequate and wondering how the hell I got myself into this position!
I couldn’t agree more with this last thing you shared. Truly Michael, I’m blown away by your gifts and know so many lives will be touched by everything you choose to share.
“Michael, I hope you look back on this interview and recognize the many gifts that are on display... your maturity, inquiring nature, ability to be clear about the situation and the likelihood that you will help many people in your life through your writing and work...all of this will take you a long way.
Wow! Thank you Donna for your thoughtful and encouraging words.
Firstly, speaking from experience, you are totally right — Kimberly has an incredible talent for making her guests feel comfortable. We had never spoken in person before, and before the camera was even rolling I felt at ease.
Secondly, there was a spot in the interview where I said how this time round Evie had made things so much easier for me. And what I was kicking myself afterwards for failing to mention was how helpful you was this time round as well Donna. I really felt bad about not adding that in, so I just wanted to say it now for the record!
And finally, It’s a funny thing, this whole pain experience, I really never expected myself to end up here, and yet, when I look back on it now with hindsight, I can’t imagine how things could’ve gone any other way.
Thank you Donna. i don’t really know how to express how much your words mean. :)
Oh my gosh don’t feel bad about that. If I could help in any way I was so glad to do so and am always here for your questions or concerns.
It is inspiring to think that our biggest challenges can eventually land us in an amazing spot and it’s only by hearing stories like yours that we can gain this perspective.
Beautiful interview. The part about “meaning” was so powerful for me. Life changing really. “You have to find and make your own meaning.” The truth is often so simple.
Thanks for listening Carissa! Michael’s approach feels somewhat in alignment with the great Stoics (alongside the existentialists). Did existentialism grow out of Stoicism? Maybe Michael knows the answer to that. But in essence, this making one’s own meaning is incredibly powerful, cultivating inner resilience and happiness by focusing on what's within our control. Because we all know there’s a hell of a lot we can’t!
There were definitely many existentialists who were influenced by the Stoics. The existentialists just branched off in different ways than the Stoics, but yes, a lot of similarities! Mayne we’ll talk about that more one day hehe :)
Thank you Carissa! And I have to say, I am so happy to hear that the part about meaning was powerful for you. It was revelatory for me when I first heard, and so, I’m thrilled to be able to pass it along. :)
what a beautiful conversation. To focus on healing, rather than healed, I think that's truly of the essence. The journey to wholeness is a continuing invitation, calling the curious platypus out of its burrow. 💕 🙏
Right? The past tense “healed” makes no sense for a living, breathing organism. And as you point out in so many of your essays, there is nothing linear about existence. Healing is a torus, a spiral, a web, ever shifting as life collides with itself.:)
So glad you enjoyed this conversation. Michael is a superb writer and deeply wise human. I know you’ll enjoy his offerings.
what a deep grasp on fate, art, life this young man has...thankyou for steering again Kimberly towards such talent and Michael's framing of how good your "In Defense Of" series is luminously accurate 🫠
This is such a difficult but tender conversation - Michael's chronic pain series was so eye-opening - if you haven't experienced it, it's hard to imagine. I've only barely grasped it because my husband was dealing with it for over two years, and only when you see the suffering can you just begin to understand. Thanks for sharing this, you two. 🩵💜🩷
Gosh, that must've been hard to witness Troy. I am hopeful that Michael's Chronic Pain Series will be published someday and become a "go to" read for anyone experiencing pain. It's such an accessible, grounded, revelatory guide.
Your words and support mean so much. I’m sorry you had to experience that with your husband. I don’t know what it’s like to watch someone you love suffer like that, but I imagine it is just as horrible in its own way.
Amazing, as always and so key to understanding how to survive. And this was too: "Yeah, absolutely. The Chronic Pain Series revealed a lot to me about you, but there was also a new quality that I discovered. This depth of relationship, the softness that I experienced when you talked about your grandfather in the story, As Sure as Seven Sevens."
Truly wonderful listen. Thank you both for this conversation.
I love the outlook and perspective you have, Michael. Really inspiring, really eloquent and grounded and intelligent. Much respect.
I have always loved the notion of leaning in to "luck", and letting yourself be guided by the feeling and being openminded to sensing these things. I'm a scientist, but I also have a more spiritual outlook on it.
Glad to hear you subscribe to the notion of leaning into luck and allowing yourself to be guided by feeling — I think it’s a very helpful approach. And personally, I like to think it doesn’t conflict with the scientific approach, but instead, just offers a different lens through which to frame things.
By the way, I forgot to say: my sister-in-law lives over in Perth (in Cottesloe) so I'm over your way usually at least once a year. Would be great to say hi in person one time. If you're ever over in Melbourne then feel free to shoot me a message.
Also also meant to say that I've wanted to see a platypus in the wild but it's never happened. I got married in the Yarra Valley and the venue where we stayed had a little creek and platypus would (apparently) often be there in the morning, but we never saw one. Elusive things.
We did go to the sanctuary in Launceston in Tassie, though. Saw lots in there, but it's obviously not the same as a wild encounter.
Ohh how cool. That would be great. While I’d love to, I have no plans to make it to Melbourne anytime soon, but please shoot me a line next time you come to Perth.
A wild encounter would be amazing! Thus far, I haven’t even seen one at a sanctuary or a zoo or anything (for some reason Perth zoo doesn’t seem to have any). But yes, a wild encounter is the dream.
Thank you Michael and Kimberley for all you have shared. It is a gift 🙏🏼
I am most encouraged by hearing about the incredible intuitive learning that has come from connecting with the wisdom of the body.
Over here on the far off east coast of Australia, I also have a preference for being unboxed. I spent the last 28 years experiencing migraines once or twice a month, for two to four days at a time. I never thought of myself as having a chronic condition. I never gave myself that label. On reflection I think this was because the pain was always simply an experience, not a defining categorisation of who I am.
I also 100% agree that resisting the pain makes it worse.
And wow! I absolutely love that you never thought of yourself as having a chronic condition. That is such a powerful defiance of labels and categorisation — much respect for that.
I also love the idea that the pain was simply an experience not a defining feature of who you are. I have whiteboard in my room and written at the top is: “I will not let pain define my life”. I’m glad to hear you are in the same boat. :)
As always, Kimberly, your guest gave me more courage and became another instrument in my own healing and acceptance. Thank you Michael. I subscribed to The Curious Platypus.
You will LOVE the Chronic Pain Series Linda! It’s full of raw, hard-earned wisdom without being preachy or prescriptive. The best kind of pain memoir!
Thanks, Kimberly!
Thank you Kimberly! You’re the best! :)
Thank you Linda. I am so happy to hear that. I wishing you luck, strength, and acceptance on your healing journey. And thank you for subscribing! That is much appreciated. If you get to it, I hope you enjoy the Chronic Pain series. :)
I WILL get to it, Michael. Looking forward to it…a lot!
Thank you Linda :)
What a fantastic conversation! Kimberly, as I've told you before, your skills as an interviewer are excellent. You have the ability to relate to your guest and make them feel comfortable which lends itself to a deeper conversation.
As someone who has worked with folks in pain for the last 30 years I found this interview very valuable, just as I gained new perspective when I read Michael's chronic pain series. The idea of pain hurting but not causing harm is so important and can often be difficult to communicate to patients who, understandably, just want the pain to go away. It was great to hear it discussed this way.
Michael, to hear you say the pain has helped you flourish internally is amazing. It's a small percentage of the population who are able to reach this meaningful conclusion. I hope that, moving forward, you are able to continue to relate to the back pain as a path to growth. It's too bad it's only in hindsight that we can see the internal change. If we could SEE it as it's happening it would make it more bearable!
The way you two talked about healing is very moving. I agree that healing is a movement inward toward our true self and sometimes it has little to do with the physical symptoms that are showing up. As you said, the hard truth of this is that sometimes we can do a great deal of healing without budging the physical symptoms, which certainly sucks in the moment!
Michael, I hope you look back on this interview and recognize the many gifts that are on display... your maturity, inquiring nature, ability to be clear about the situation and the likelihood that you will help many people in your life through your writing and work...all of this will take you a long way.
Thank you to both of you.
Donna your generous heart is deeply appreciated! And thank you for offering such kind words about my interviewing—of course I exit every session feeling inadequate and wondering how the hell I got myself into this position!
I couldn’t agree more with this last thing you shared. Truly Michael, I’m blown away by your gifts and know so many lives will be touched by everything you choose to share.
“Michael, I hope you look back on this interview and recognize the many gifts that are on display... your maturity, inquiring nature, ability to be clear about the situation and the likelihood that you will help many people in your life through your writing and work...all of this will take you a long way.
I am the same after any speaking gig, no matter how well it went…the inadequacy and WTH?!
Thank you Kimberly!
And I know the feeling of inadequacy is almost unavoidable, but seriously, you have a real knack for this interviewing thing. :)
Wow! Thank you Donna for your thoughtful and encouraging words.
Firstly, speaking from experience, you are totally right — Kimberly has an incredible talent for making her guests feel comfortable. We had never spoken in person before, and before the camera was even rolling I felt at ease.
Secondly, there was a spot in the interview where I said how this time round Evie had made things so much easier for me. And what I was kicking myself afterwards for failing to mention was how helpful you was this time round as well Donna. I really felt bad about not adding that in, so I just wanted to say it now for the record!
And finally, It’s a funny thing, this whole pain experience, I really never expected myself to end up here, and yet, when I look back on it now with hindsight, I can’t imagine how things could’ve gone any other way.
Thank you Donna. i don’t really know how to express how much your words mean. :)
This exchange makes me so very happy. Endlessly. You both are brilliant gifts to this world.
🙏❤️
Oh my gosh don’t feel bad about that. If I could help in any way I was so glad to do so and am always here for your questions or concerns.
It is inspiring to think that our biggest challenges can eventually land us in an amazing spot and it’s only by hearing stories like yours that we can gain this perspective.
Thank you Donna :)
Beautiful interview. The part about “meaning” was so powerful for me. Life changing really. “You have to find and make your own meaning.” The truth is often so simple.
Thanks for listening Carissa! Michael’s approach feels somewhat in alignment with the great Stoics (alongside the existentialists). Did existentialism grow out of Stoicism? Maybe Michael knows the answer to that. But in essence, this making one’s own meaning is incredibly powerful, cultivating inner resilience and happiness by focusing on what's within our control. Because we all know there’s a hell of a lot we can’t!
There were definitely many existentialists who were influenced by the Stoics. The existentialists just branched off in different ways than the Stoics, but yes, a lot of similarities! Mayne we’ll talk about that more one day hehe :)
Thank you Carissa! And I have to say, I am so happy to hear that the part about meaning was powerful for you. It was revelatory for me when I first heard, and so, I’m thrilled to be able to pass it along. :)
what a beautiful conversation. To focus on healing, rather than healed, I think that's truly of the essence. The journey to wholeness is a continuing invitation, calling the curious platypus out of its burrow. 💕 🙏
Right? The past tense “healed” makes no sense for a living, breathing organism. And as you point out in so many of your essays, there is nothing linear about existence. Healing is a torus, a spiral, a web, ever shifting as life collides with itself.:)
So glad you enjoyed this conversation. Michael is a superb writer and deeply wise human. I know you’ll enjoy his offerings.
“The past tense “healed” makes no sense for a living, breathing organism.” — Amen to that! :)
Yes, I can see that. Thank you so much for introducing us to his work xx
Thank you Veronika. I couldn’t agree more with what you said: “The journey towards wholeness is a continuing invitation…” Well said!
The ‘ing’ in healing certainly feels more honest to the experience, than the finality of the ‘ed’ in healed. :)
You're welcome, Michael. Lovely to meet you here xx
Right back at you Veronika :)
what a deep grasp on fate, art, life this young man has...thankyou for steering again Kimberly towards such talent and Michael's framing of how good your "In Defense Of" series is luminously accurate 🫠
Yes! Such a great expression—“deep grasp”—and a perfect way to sum up Michael. Wise beyond his years and then some.:)
Too kind and then some ;)
I hadn’t put it that way myself, but, ‘fate’ is the right word for it appleton.
Thrilled to hear you love Kimberly’s ‘In Defense Of…’ series as much me!
Thank you :)
My favourite person being interviewed by the kindest of souls!
Awwwww! xoxoxo
Thank you Chicken. You’re my favourite person too! ❤️🐥
This is such a difficult but tender conversation - Michael's chronic pain series was so eye-opening - if you haven't experienced it, it's hard to imagine. I've only barely grasped it because my husband was dealing with it for over two years, and only when you see the suffering can you just begin to understand. Thanks for sharing this, you two. 🩵💜🩷
Gosh, that must've been hard to witness Troy. I am hopeful that Michael's Chronic Pain Series will be published someday and become a "go to" read for anyone experiencing pain. It's such an accessible, grounded, revelatory guide.
Bless you Kimberly 🙏❤️
Thank you Troy.
Your words and support mean so much. I’m sorry you had to experience that with your husband. I don’t know what it’s like to watch someone you love suffer like that, but I imagine it is just as horrible in its own way.
Much love brother ❤️
And to you brother 🩵
Two of my favs!!! ❤️🔥 Lucky indeed
Thanks Jenovia! 🙏❤️😊
Amazing, as always and so key to understanding how to survive. And this was too: "Yeah, absolutely. The Chronic Pain Series revealed a lot to me about you, but there was also a new quality that I discovered. This depth of relationship, the softness that I experienced when you talked about your grandfather in the story, As Sure as Seven Sevens."
And as a btw: my son lived
just north of Adelaide in McClaren Vale, Michael.
Thank you Mary. So glad you enjoyed the interview. And I know, right!? Kimberly’s words are awfully profound!
And ohh no way, that’s so cool — it’s a small world, after all! :)
Indeed, Michael!
Beautiful reflection Mary. Yes, pairing intelligent survival strategies with a soft, relational heart? A potent combo.
Ah, yes, love.
Truly wonderful listen. Thank you both for this conversation.
I love the outlook and perspective you have, Michael. Really inspiring, really eloquent and grounded and intelligent. Much respect.
I have always loved the notion of leaning in to "luck", and letting yourself be guided by the feeling and being openminded to sensing these things. I'm a scientist, but I also have a more spiritual outlook on it.
Thank you Nathan. That means a lot.
Glad to hear you subscribe to the notion of leaning into luck and allowing yourself to be guided by feeling — I think it’s a very helpful approach. And personally, I like to think it doesn’t conflict with the scientific approach, but instead, just offers a different lens through which to frame things.
Thrilled you enjoyed the conversation. :)
Yeah, I really like that way of thinking.
By the way, I forgot to say: my sister-in-law lives over in Perth (in Cottesloe) so I'm over your way usually at least once a year. Would be great to say hi in person one time. If you're ever over in Melbourne then feel free to shoot me a message.
Also also meant to say that I've wanted to see a platypus in the wild but it's never happened. I got married in the Yarra Valley and the venue where we stayed had a little creek and platypus would (apparently) often be there in the morning, but we never saw one. Elusive things.
We did go to the sanctuary in Launceston in Tassie, though. Saw lots in there, but it's obviously not the same as a wild encounter.
Ohh how cool. That would be great. While I’d love to, I have no plans to make it to Melbourne anytime soon, but please shoot me a line next time you come to Perth.
A wild encounter would be amazing! Thus far, I haven’t even seen one at a sanctuary or a zoo or anything (for some reason Perth zoo doesn’t seem to have any). But yes, a wild encounter is the dream.
Thanks Nathan :)
Thank you Michael and Kimberley for all you have shared. It is a gift 🙏🏼
I am most encouraged by hearing about the incredible intuitive learning that has come from connecting with the wisdom of the body.
Over here on the far off east coast of Australia, I also have a preference for being unboxed. I spent the last 28 years experiencing migraines once or twice a month, for two to four days at a time. I never thought of myself as having a chronic condition. I never gave myself that label. On reflection I think this was because the pain was always simply an experience, not a defining categorisation of who I am.
I also 100% agree that resisting the pain makes it worse.
Thank you Kelly!
And wow! I absolutely love that you never thought of yourself as having a chronic condition. That is such a powerful defiance of labels and categorisation — much respect for that.
I also love the idea that the pain was simply an experience not a defining feature of who you are. I have whiteboard in my room and written at the top is: “I will not let pain define my life”. I’m glad to hear you are in the same boat. :)
What a wonderful conversation -so much to admire in both of you..
Thank you Anne. Glad you enjoyed it!
It really was an wonderful conversation :)