takes breath away what you and Mary deliver here and with such tenderness humor and characteristic modesty
the joy of finding this interweaving (and in stereo...voice and image) is like experiencing solo artists of such depth and sincerity making sweet immortal
music together 💥❤️
i took notes and will eventually bore Mary with them so they dont overwhelm a re-stack comment which should be justifiably focussed on you both
"bore" Ha!!!! The understatement of a lifetime. ;) Your keen listening and attentive heart makes me believe that we're not so much solo artists but all together creating some sort of cosmic orchestra.
too generous as for my part more like comic seeing as my slavering dog just dropped his frisbee on my laptop in my little writing shack which gets better hot-spot and screen went dim and i figured out for first time there were controls on keyboard that conrol light!!!
miles to go before i for one sleep after learning to walk 🫠🙃🤪
Hahahaha! Oh the dimming key is one of my all-time favorites! Sometimes I can barely make out what I'm writing, the light too brazen at times for this dizzy brain. :)
I am DESPERATE to read your article which struck the rabbi dumb, Mary! What a delight - how utterly charming you both are, thank you so much for this conversation (all of your conversations, Kim - you bring out the best in people.) How I wish I'd met and known a teacher with your sensitivity early on, Mary - I still circle writing classes/teachers/groups very warily thanks to that early stomping. 💜❤️💙
Oh, I would love to work with both you and Kimberly! Maybe we could work something out. I have a special one-on-one approach that is quite different from what I do online. And I've told Kimberly about it. Anyway, lovely comment, Troy!
Thank you both so much for this wonderful conversation. I learned why you both are among my top favourite writers here on substack: It's all about the journey of (self-)discovery, and the not knowing... (which happens to be my journey too).
This resonates with me so deeply. Also what you said, Mary, about being in the flow, and writing without knowing what wants to be written ~ that's when the writing becomes most exciting, right? Tapping into the inspiration (which you call 'invention').
And this: "I think the key to writing a really good memoir is having that level of humility and lack of certainty."
Both your memoirs I have found deeply moving, both so well written and relatable.
I haven't written a memoir, not sure if I ever will. But I learned so much about writing here from this conversation, and why to remain in the space of unknowing is so important. I love it! This makes so much sense to me.
I love the openheartedness you both share, the courage to be tender, to be perfectly imperfect, to dive into the stories of love, which are also stories of grief... I'm sure I'll listen to this again.
Your reflections are always so attentive, thoughtful and generous Veronika. Wherever I read your comments, I always picture you sitting quietly, no distractions, heart, mind, body all aligned to respond with the gentle force of a heart who knows the preciousness of connection. (If that's not true, don't spoil it for me!)
I do hope Mary posts her Life Boat someday. I think you will soar with it in the same way I did. Mary doesn't write, she channels. And the words are sourced from truths far beyond anything I can comprehend with my little brain. So wonderful to feel you connecting over here too, as you both share this space together.
Kimberly, you are such a treasure. I'm still hoping a good literary magazine will take it. But maybe Substack IS the new literary magazine??? So many are closing doors, narrowing their focus, losing funding. Though I support as many as I can.
Jun 10·edited Jun 10Liked by <Mary L. Tabor>, Kimberly Warner
You're right, Kimberly, I'm not going to spoil your vision 😉. I do tune in from the heart whenever I read and comment. The connection between us and its preciousness is precisely my reason for writing, reading and commenting on substack (which is the only platform I've found to support this level of connecting).
I can also very much relate to your way of writing, Mary (and I seem to remember you mentioned something similar too, Kimberly). When we write, something else kicks in, some other force taking over. It is a bit like channeling (but I don't like the word so much because it is charged with specific meaning). To me it feels like connecting with the 'creative genius' (aka the inner daimon).
Such moments are so precious, and we don't know where the knowledge comes from. It could be connection to collective consciousness (?)
Anyway, it's another form of connecting which we share in our individual writing processes, and which is precious to me/us.
Veronika, your thoughts here are so generous and full of heart and keying in to what I so worried that I took chances on in the "saying". So grateful here and for your penetrating Substack that folks should be reading, if they're not already.
Oh, I'm so grateful for you being you, Mary. Just keep on "saying without knowing". It all comes from an honest and beautiful place, giving others the permission, and encouragement, to do the same. I believe this is a source of true healing.
I almost titled this interview Mary’s Unknowing Knowing… it’s a remarkably liberating space Mary occupies. I felt the lightness even through the recording platform. If I’m ever lucky enough to be in her presence, I might just take flight. :)
Isn't Mary a one-of-a-kind earth angel? I just adore her. And that brain of hers is quite something. I have a hunch it's less gray matter and more rainbow matter.
Mary and Kimberly, I have the pleasure of knowing only one of you (in the swift and magical way we come to know each other on Substack), and what a delight to read you two in conversation. Coming from a place of not knowing is necessary (again, magically) when you write about yourself. If not, you're run the risk of posturing (at worst) and hiding (also worst, but in a different way). Anyway, I run on, because you two are inspiring! Many thanks for this.
Oh my gosh, so much goodness here. two tender souls in conversation. So of course the outcome is brilliant. Mary, I too watch and read somewhat discriminately and love the marriage of “disparate” genres and realms. And I think boredom is a lack of creativity. ;) I also resonate with the importance of not knowing to making anything that hits. And I’m so sorry for your loss and much look forward to wherever Lifeboat lands— whoever ends up printing it will be very fortunate to have done so.
Kimberly, thank you for another gorgeous interview. These conversations truly highlight the beauty of the way we are all connecting and creating together here. I’m not sure either if we’re just in a particularly generous and warm and talented silo of Substack. Whatever the case, I’m glad I found it. And I hope it’s happening for everyone here. ♥️♥️
Can't say enough, Holly: You are a treasure. The kindness of this comment defines you. Your generosity to others on Substack is a reflection of you in the world--the world that is lucky you're here. Love to you, ~ Mary
I’m not sure how so much wisdom and grace and love managed to get packed into the space of an hour, but the two of you managed it! Honestly, what a joy. I’m so grateful to have found my way on to this platform where one can bask in both your glows, and I’m grateful to have managed to avoid writing workshops along the way. They sound absolutely horrifying… I’m still reeling on behalf of Troy! Thank you for sharing your dear hearts, both.
Dearest Kimberly and Mary, you are both so freaking amazing!! As I sit here shivering and cursing at the injustice of my students passing on their viruses, I réalise I am also thankful. What a heavenly, insightful and yes, always tender conversation from two souls I admire and revere.
Heart thanks to you both for filling this forced moment of rest with such valued live and encouragement - I feel overwhelmed with gratitude, to both of you and for being ill enough to not be moving, I would never have had time to listen to your incredibly precious spoken gifts to us otherwise - no matter that I’ve had it saved and no matter my desire to. I will continue to keep your kindness’s locked and safe though to take notes when this aching body of mine is feeling more willing to comply with either mentally or physically energetic demands - all the while cursing the traitorous scoundrel that she is - I expect more.
I have grappled with uncertainty, with lack of confidence all my life - you are both a cool and soothing balm… thank you - thank you - thank you. 💐💐xx
I so wish, Susie, that I could know you better. From your words, I feel the pain and am not sure what I could have said that reached it. Your story needs to be told ... ~ Mary
Curse the kiddo bugs! Sorry to hear you've been so under the weather. (Or maybe it's aptly "in" the weather if you're still experiencing fog and rain... we are having quite a bit of it up here right now.) I'm glad Mary and I could be a cozy blanket for your resting body. Maybe you be climbing your lovely hill again with Susie-esque wonder in no time.
I do not know where to begin. I have two pages of notes! Almost everything grabbed my heart. The entire process of writing for me is in this interview. I came here from sitting in that boat of grief for over two years. A voice said to get up and "keep my family" through writing. I had done enough soppy family t.v. shows and my dad died during it all. In my teens I did a short stint in the entertainment industry and was a semi-regular on The Waltons. In an interview with Judy Norton, last summer, we spoke about this very thing of seeking solace, living through a life on a television show, or in a movie, something that we weren't living in reality. I met so many fans on forums who spoke of this during grieving seasons and hard times. My family was completely torn apart in 2020 The thought of walking into oncoming traffic was real and then my dad got sick.
I cannot thank you enough Kimberly for this meaningful interview and being introduced to Mary.
My profession was (still is at times) in photography. I wanted to throw it all away during this time because I realized how much I loved through my lens and it hurt so bad. I hope to continue to grow in writing, not quite calling myself a writer for now. My hope and joy has always been in telling visual stories with a camera. It's a feeling that I have deeply tried to express, as in movement, and all the dance I did growing up. I know absolutely nothing about writing so I write what strikes me in my daily surroundings, my head and in my dreams. I run to writing as "seeing what I cannot see." You gave name to the process I feel as "flow." The world does break us and it's so very true that in the end it is all about love. Love leads us forward.
I relate very much to the discussion on workshops, through photography. Art is a tender process and it's easy to break a spirit. I tried one many years ago, midway through my career, and walked away feeling like an idiot. I was older in the field surrounded by young hyper know it alls. Nothing unique, good or creative comes from that.
I could go on, however, I will leave by saying my heart is more full after listening to you both. That's actually a TON! This community already fills it daily. I feel very humbled. You are both such extraordinary talents. Thank you for sharing so much of your time. oxox
Wow Deborah, not until reading your comment did I understand how many parallels we have in our paths. Dancing, photography, a pull toward writing (but not daring to call ourselves writers.) I’ve felt a kindred spirit in your essays, a similar longing and resolution, so I’m delighted to connect you now to Mary’s deep wisdom and infectious creative fire. It’s so encouraging to know that we don’t have to go back to get an MFA to “write” and Mary gives us the courage to live in that space of the unknown, listen and respond with all our heart. Thank you for such a generous comment. It sounds like you have quite a story to tell of your own grief and becoming. I’d love to learn more (in other words…. you’re now on my “must interview” list. :) )
Kimberly, I had no idea about your dance/photography background! I do feel very connected to you as well. There is a fire I relate to. The pain of our "unfixable" health as well. What you are doing is beautiful. I never thought I could come through my own grief like I did. What Mary said about "love" being the answer is true. Love is medicine. Love as medicine. Our love is all over the place. It's up and down and often unforgivable. Divine love is different. It's so pure, so childlike. That's everything. Forgiveness. Moving on unfixed. Living. My motto slowly became, "I live to create and I create to live." I cried out for help. How? It's been life saving. Creativity as medicine brings love to the surface. If we love ourselves, our uniqueness, ..we love. Oh gosh! me? on your list? that would be crazy! oxox
Thank you again Mary. Truly wonderful listening to you both. Also, I am truly sorry for all the loss you have endured. I feel it. The process of grief turning into the realization that love is everything. I get that. Love is medicine. ox
This conversation was such a gift... not only in understanding of the poetics of invention of sitting with uncertainty and let it guide you toward self-discovery but then also inviting in complexity... I love the quote about Rom-coms... "the part of the romantic comedy was—take it, and I think I may have already said this today, but take it and complicate it. Complicate it with what really happens in life. And then you've got a story." I just adore this and am making it my mantra for the book I'm finishing right now... Mostly because the real readers I'm writing for SO deserve a love story, they so yearn for a happily ever after or at the very least a happily for now... until the next adventure. Thank you for this lovely gift of an interview. Just so much wisdom in “when broken is the fix”... I'm certainly living it. xox
Only brave and genius hearts like yours and Mary's would actually invite complexity. You wield your scythe through the weeds with such mastery Alisa. I can't wait to read your forthcoming book!
Oh, how I love that you took time to write this, Alisa. Yours was such a grand interview. Isn't Kimberly a marvel of generosity of spirit. Thank you for this lovable comment.
Jun 9·edited Jun 9Liked by Kimberly Warner, <Mary L. Tabor>
Thank you Kimberly and Mary Tabor.
The interview was excellent . An intimate conversation, highlighted by many intricate layers and details. Especially this Mary; a quote I will save . Take out every once in a while to remember.
“That similarity always struck me as a metaphor for existence. And to search through existence and to try to create some sort of meaning and order to the ? of existence is what art does. It's what a great painting does. It's what a great book does. It's what a great film does. It's what a great song does.”
“And I think the key to writing a really good memoir is having that level of humility and lack of certainty.”
Though I am not a writer, I agree with your statement, Mary. Humility is certainly a quality that I appreciate in a well written memoir. As a reader, without it, I am more likely to close the cover. Arrogance is a turn off.
Your gift of perception is quite stunning Lor. It's always such a gift to feel you here. I don't know if you get notifications when I comment on a comment, but see my below "Lor gushing." ;)
I do get notifications but am not sure if this post also went out to my subscribers. One of them I'm close to says he didn't get a notification. Is there something I should do, Kimberly --or write me or call me to explain, wizard that you are!
The question mark Lor: I said "the and then and then" of existence. Sorry I garbled that in the chat. Love this generous comment. Hope to know you better more and soon. ~ Mary
Oh Mary, Lor is truly a gem. I wake up each day hoping to find her first official post. Her comments alone could be compiled into their own essays, each one singular and from-the-heart, filtered through whatever magic that goes on between her ears to make it uniquely "Lor."
Thank you Mary for the clarification. Truthfully it went unnoticed. My mind added in the word ‘question’ and onward I went . I was reading and not listening, so no ‘garbling’ on my end.
Thank you for the kind words in this beautiful, literary conversation. The end-note on humility / not having all the answers sounds like one of the truest things a writer (or anyone) needs to remember. I'm eager to see your Munro post, Mary, on Thursday!
Speaking of Munro and grief and floating, this reminds me of the Munro story, "Floating Bridge" (in *Hateship, Friendship* etc). Have you read that one, Mary? I wonder if it's like the floating sensation of your grief when you wrote about losing your son (an unimaginable experience). The main character in the story has cancer and allows a boy to drive her home, and the story ends with the car going over a floating bridge, just lingering on the sensation of that, between here and there and who knows where.
Munro makes perfect sense to someone who has had the experience of hovering, realizing we don't have any idea what comes next.
Tara, I do own that collection you mention, but actually I don't recall that story. Will be reading it today. I am so honored by your comment here and your direct invitation for me to write about the incomparable Munro. Isn't Kimberly a marvel! Love to you ~ Mary
Tara, your comments are always so full of insight—I must go digging for this Munro collection. The state of hovering is probably more true in this earthly existence than anything fixed, even though our egos continue to grasp for certainty. Thank you for sharing this image of the floating bridge; a route from here to there but also fluid in its path.
I'm a product of the university workshop system?/industry?, so, Mary's comments about writing workshops struck a nerve--but I'll refrain from ranting. Suffice it to say that I grew mightily sick of a roomful of people telling the writer to write the story as they would have written it. I finally figured out after many years of teaching writing that the traditional workshop model that had been ingrained in me as a student and then a TA wasn't a particularly effective model because it didn't address the goals of the writer for the story or personal essay. Where I finally landed was to call it peer feedback for reader response. Then the writer would explain his or her goals for the story, with the discussion then focusing on effective strategies for closing the gap between reader response and author intent.
I left out a key word: what you said so well. I hope others who read this will take note. Exactly! And the way I teach now and taught at university when I was a professor of Creative Writing. Exactly. Love to you, Liz.
Exactly. Couldn’t have said it better. I hope others who read your words will take what you’ve so well to heart. That is the way I teach now and how I taught when I was teaching at university. Love to you, Liz.
Oh, I feel like this conversation surfaces so many layers of humanity and compassion. I only wish I could have been in Mary's classes at the Smithsonian--they sound remarkable.
takes breath away what you and Mary deliver here and with such tenderness humor and characteristic modesty
the joy of finding this interweaving (and in stereo...voice and image) is like experiencing solo artists of such depth and sincerity making sweet immortal
music together 💥❤️
i took notes and will eventually bore Mary with them so they dont overwhelm a re-stack comment which should be justifiably focussed on you both
"bore" Ha!!!! The understatement of a lifetime. ;) Your keen listening and attentive heart makes me believe that we're not so much solo artists but all together creating some sort of cosmic orchestra.
too generous as for my part more like comic seeing as my slavering dog just dropped his frisbee on my laptop in my little writing shack which gets better hot-spot and screen went dim and i figured out for first time there were controls on keyboard that conrol light!!!
miles to go before i for one sleep after learning to walk 🫠🙃🤪
Hahahaha! Oh the dimming key is one of my all-time favorites! Sometimes I can barely make out what I'm writing, the light too brazen at times for this dizzy brain. :)
How could possibly bore me! Never, ever ...
you may wanna check in-box lol
I wrote you back, Appleton! Hope you got it!
i did not
😪
I'll send again.
I am DESPERATE to read your article which struck the rabbi dumb, Mary! What a delight - how utterly charming you both are, thank you so much for this conversation (all of your conversations, Kim - you bring out the best in people.) How I wish I'd met and known a teacher with your sensitivity early on, Mary - I still circle writing classes/teachers/groups very warily thanks to that early stomping. 💜❤️💙
Oh, I would love to work with both you and Kimberly! Maybe we could work something out. I have a special one-on-one approach that is quite different from what I do online. And I've told Kimberly about it. Anyway, lovely comment, Troy!
Tell me more... 🤗 DM or email?
I'll send you an email with the proposal!
Right? I found myself drooling with a dream of being Mary’s student someday.
Thank you both so much for this wonderful conversation. I learned why you both are among my top favourite writers here on substack: It's all about the journey of (self-)discovery, and the not knowing... (which happens to be my journey too).
This resonates with me so deeply. Also what you said, Mary, about being in the flow, and writing without knowing what wants to be written ~ that's when the writing becomes most exciting, right? Tapping into the inspiration (which you call 'invention').
And this: "I think the key to writing a really good memoir is having that level of humility and lack of certainty."
Both your memoirs I have found deeply moving, both so well written and relatable.
I haven't written a memoir, not sure if I ever will. But I learned so much about writing here from this conversation, and why to remain in the space of unknowing is so important. I love it! This makes so much sense to me.
I love the openheartedness you both share, the courage to be tender, to be perfectly imperfect, to dive into the stories of love, which are also stories of grief... I'm sure I'll listen to this again.
Much love and gratitude to you both 💗🙏
Your reflections are always so attentive, thoughtful and generous Veronika. Wherever I read your comments, I always picture you sitting quietly, no distractions, heart, mind, body all aligned to respond with the gentle force of a heart who knows the preciousness of connection. (If that's not true, don't spoil it for me!)
I do hope Mary posts her Life Boat someday. I think you will soar with it in the same way I did. Mary doesn't write, she channels. And the words are sourced from truths far beyond anything I can comprehend with my little brain. So wonderful to feel you connecting over here too, as you both share this space together.
Kimberly, you are such a treasure. I'm still hoping a good literary magazine will take it. But maybe Substack IS the new literary magazine??? So many are closing doors, narrowing their focus, losing funding. Though I support as many as I can.
Maybe we'll start a new literary magazine on substack...??
Hmm, maybe?
You're right, Kimberly, I'm not going to spoil your vision 😉. I do tune in from the heart whenever I read and comment. The connection between us and its preciousness is precisely my reason for writing, reading and commenting on substack (which is the only platform I've found to support this level of connecting).
I can also very much relate to your way of writing, Mary (and I seem to remember you mentioned something similar too, Kimberly). When we write, something else kicks in, some other force taking over. It is a bit like channeling (but I don't like the word so much because it is charged with specific meaning). To me it feels like connecting with the 'creative genius' (aka the inner daimon).
Such moments are so precious, and we don't know where the knowledge comes from. It could be connection to collective consciousness (?)
Anyway, it's another form of connecting which we share in our individual writing processes, and which is precious to me/us.
And Veronika, I am now adding prose to _Who by Fire_ as you and Kimberly requested. Go here: https://marytabor.substack.com/p/who-by-fire-a-serial-novel-add
Yay! Thank you so much 💗🙏
Veronika, your thoughts here are so generous and full of heart and keying in to what I so worried that I took chances on in the "saying". So grateful here and for your penetrating Substack that folks should be reading, if they're not already.
The words needs you to "take those chances" Mary. There is a well of wisdom within you and anyone who is lucky enough to drink from it is renewed.
Oh, I'm so grateful for you being you, Mary. Just keep on "saying without knowing". It all comes from an honest and beautiful place, giving others the permission, and encouragement, to do the same. I believe this is a source of true healing.
I almost titled this interview Mary’s Unknowing Knowing… it’s a remarkably liberating space Mary occupies. I felt the lightness even through the recording platform. If I’m ever lucky enough to be in her presence, I might just take flight. :)
This is so wonderful. Kimberly, you couldn’t have chosen a better guest!
Aren't you a dear soul, Sam.
Isn't Mary a one-of-a-kind earth angel? I just adore her. And that brain of hers is quite something. I have a hunch it's less gray matter and more rainbow matter.
That's so eloquent--though mostly I'm kind of a mess of confusion. Maybe there's a rainbow in there somewhere but I'm still looking for it. xo
Mary and Kimberly, I have the pleasure of knowing only one of you (in the swift and magical way we come to know each other on Substack), and what a delight to read you two in conversation. Coming from a place of not knowing is necessary (again, magically) when you write about yourself. If not, you're run the risk of posturing (at worst) and hiding (also worst, but in a different way). Anyway, I run on, because you two are inspiring! Many thanks for this.
What a generous commentary, Elizabeth, on what was for me a heartfelt exchange straight like an arrow from Kimberly's heart.
Thank you for your kind reflection Elizabeth, so nice to “meet” you in this special substack kingdom. ;)
Oh my gosh, so much goodness here. two tender souls in conversation. So of course the outcome is brilliant. Mary, I too watch and read somewhat discriminately and love the marriage of “disparate” genres and realms. And I think boredom is a lack of creativity. ;) I also resonate with the importance of not knowing to making anything that hits. And I’m so sorry for your loss and much look forward to wherever Lifeboat lands— whoever ends up printing it will be very fortunate to have done so.
Kimberly, thank you for another gorgeous interview. These conversations truly highlight the beauty of the way we are all connecting and creating together here. I’m not sure either if we’re just in a particularly generous and warm and talented silo of Substack. Whatever the case, I’m glad I found it. And I hope it’s happening for everyone here. ♥️♥️
Can't say enough, Holly: You are a treasure. The kindness of this comment defines you. Your generosity to others on Substack is a reflection of you in the world--the world that is lucky you're here. Love to you, ~ Mary
Oh Holly, you’re an angel. Thank you for your attentive heart. ❤️
I’m not sure how so much wisdom and grace and love managed to get packed into the space of an hour, but the two of you managed it! Honestly, what a joy. I’m so grateful to have found my way on to this platform where one can bask in both your glows, and I’m grateful to have managed to avoid writing workshops along the way. They sound absolutely horrifying… I’m still reeling on behalf of Troy! Thank you for sharing your dear hearts, both.
Oh, Chloe, such warm, generous words from your heart that opens to all in need.
We are ALL grateful you managed to avoid writing workshops Chloe! If you had, the earth would've tilted off her axis.
Dearest Kimberly and Mary, you are both so freaking amazing!! As I sit here shivering and cursing at the injustice of my students passing on their viruses, I réalise I am also thankful. What a heavenly, insightful and yes, always tender conversation from two souls I admire and revere.
Heart thanks to you both for filling this forced moment of rest with such valued live and encouragement - I feel overwhelmed with gratitude, to both of you and for being ill enough to not be moving, I would never have had time to listen to your incredibly precious spoken gifts to us otherwise - no matter that I’ve had it saved and no matter my desire to. I will continue to keep your kindness’s locked and safe though to take notes when this aching body of mine is feeling more willing to comply with either mentally or physically energetic demands - all the while cursing the traitorous scoundrel that she is - I expect more.
I have grappled with uncertainty, with lack of confidence all my life - you are both a cool and soothing balm… thank you - thank you - thank you. 💐💐xx
I so wish, Susie, that I could know you better. From your words, I feel the pain and am not sure what I could have said that reached it. Your story needs to be told ... ~ Mary
Every word Mary, touched a fear and a joy - you couldn’t have said more to have eased the day. Thank you for that.
Curse the kiddo bugs! Sorry to hear you've been so under the weather. (Or maybe it's aptly "in" the weather if you're still experiencing fog and rain... we are having quite a bit of it up here right now.) I'm glad Mary and I could be a cozy blanket for your resting body. Maybe you be climbing your lovely hill again with Susie-esque wonder in no time.
Dear Kimberly and Mary,
I do not know where to begin. I have two pages of notes! Almost everything grabbed my heart. The entire process of writing for me is in this interview. I came here from sitting in that boat of grief for over two years. A voice said to get up and "keep my family" through writing. I had done enough soppy family t.v. shows and my dad died during it all. In my teens I did a short stint in the entertainment industry and was a semi-regular on The Waltons. In an interview with Judy Norton, last summer, we spoke about this very thing of seeking solace, living through a life on a television show, or in a movie, something that we weren't living in reality. I met so many fans on forums who spoke of this during grieving seasons and hard times. My family was completely torn apart in 2020 The thought of walking into oncoming traffic was real and then my dad got sick.
I cannot thank you enough Kimberly for this meaningful interview and being introduced to Mary.
My profession was (still is at times) in photography. I wanted to throw it all away during this time because I realized how much I loved through my lens and it hurt so bad. I hope to continue to grow in writing, not quite calling myself a writer for now. My hope and joy has always been in telling visual stories with a camera. It's a feeling that I have deeply tried to express, as in movement, and all the dance I did growing up. I know absolutely nothing about writing so I write what strikes me in my daily surroundings, my head and in my dreams. I run to writing as "seeing what I cannot see." You gave name to the process I feel as "flow." The world does break us and it's so very true that in the end it is all about love. Love leads us forward.
I relate very much to the discussion on workshops, through photography. Art is a tender process and it's easy to break a spirit. I tried one many years ago, midway through my career, and walked away feeling like an idiot. I was older in the field surrounded by young hyper know it alls. Nothing unique, good or creative comes from that.
I could go on, however, I will leave by saying my heart is more full after listening to you both. That's actually a TON! This community already fills it daily. I feel very humbled. You are both such extraordinary talents. Thank you for sharing so much of your time. oxox
Wow Deborah, not until reading your comment did I understand how many parallels we have in our paths. Dancing, photography, a pull toward writing (but not daring to call ourselves writers.) I’ve felt a kindred spirit in your essays, a similar longing and resolution, so I’m delighted to connect you now to Mary’s deep wisdom and infectious creative fire. It’s so encouraging to know that we don’t have to go back to get an MFA to “write” and Mary gives us the courage to live in that space of the unknown, listen and respond with all our heart. Thank you for such a generous comment. It sounds like you have quite a story to tell of your own grief and becoming. I’d love to learn more (in other words…. you’re now on my “must interview” list. :) )
Kimberly, I had no idea about your dance/photography background! I do feel very connected to you as well. There is a fire I relate to. The pain of our "unfixable" health as well. What you are doing is beautiful. I never thought I could come through my own grief like I did. What Mary said about "love" being the answer is true. Love is medicine. Love as medicine. Our love is all over the place. It's up and down and often unforgivable. Divine love is different. It's so pure, so childlike. That's everything. Forgiveness. Moving on unfixed. Living. My motto slowly became, "I live to create and I create to live." I cried out for help. How? It's been life saving. Creativity as medicine brings love to the surface. If we love ourselves, our uniqueness, ..we love. Oh gosh! me? on your list? that would be crazy! oxox
Oh, Deborah, such an open and generous expression for us both. I am is grateful you took the time to listen to it all--means so much. Big xo! ~ Mary
Thank you again Mary. Truly wonderful listening to you both. Also, I am truly sorry for all the loss you have endured. I feel it. The process of grief turning into the realization that love is everything. I get that. Love is medicine. ox
Dear soul, Deborah, my heart to yours. xo ~ Mary
A wonderful conversation. I had never come across Mary or her work until today — so thank you for enlightening me. :)
Oh lovely Edward--no comma on purpose!
Oh! Her wizardry with concepts and words is like nothing I’ve ever experienced. You will LOVE.
This conversation was such a gift... not only in understanding of the poetics of invention of sitting with uncertainty and let it guide you toward self-discovery but then also inviting in complexity... I love the quote about Rom-coms... "the part of the romantic comedy was—take it, and I think I may have already said this today, but take it and complicate it. Complicate it with what really happens in life. And then you've got a story." I just adore this and am making it my mantra for the book I'm finishing right now... Mostly because the real readers I'm writing for SO deserve a love story, they so yearn for a happily ever after or at the very least a happily for now... until the next adventure. Thank you for this lovely gift of an interview. Just so much wisdom in “when broken is the fix”... I'm certainly living it. xox
Only brave and genius hearts like yours and Mary's would actually invite complexity. You wield your scythe through the weeds with such mastery Alisa. I can't wait to read your forthcoming book!
Well, there are certainly some thick weeds, but... oh, the surprises you find along the way!
Oh, how I love that you took time to write this, Alisa. Yours was such a grand interview. Isn't Kimberly a marvel of generosity of spirit. Thank you for this lovable comment.
Thank you for the wonderful interview. I loved the laughter!
Oh, thank goodness. Loving you back!
Thank you Kimberly and Mary Tabor.
The interview was excellent . An intimate conversation, highlighted by many intricate layers and details. Especially this Mary; a quote I will save . Take out every once in a while to remember.
“That similarity always struck me as a metaphor for existence. And to search through existence and to try to create some sort of meaning and order to the ? of existence is what art does. It's what a great painting does. It's what a great book does. It's what a great film does. It's what a great song does.”
“And I think the key to writing a really good memoir is having that level of humility and lack of certainty.”
Though I am not a writer, I agree with your statement, Mary. Humility is certainly a quality that I appreciate in a well written memoir. As a reader, without it, I am more likely to close the cover. Arrogance is a turn off.
Your gift of perception is quite stunning Lor. It's always such a gift to feel you here. I don't know if you get notifications when I comment on a comment, but see my below "Lor gushing." ;)
I do get notifications but am not sure if this post also went out to my subscribers. One of them I'm close to says he didn't get a notification. Is there something I should do, Kimberly --or write me or call me to explain, wizard that you are!
The question mark Lor: I said "the and then and then" of existence. Sorry I garbled that in the chat. Love this generous comment. Hope to know you better more and soon. ~ Mary
Oh Mary, Lor is truly a gem. I wake up each day hoping to find her first official post. Her comments alone could be compiled into their own essays, each one singular and from-the-heart, filtered through whatever magic that goes on between her ears to make it uniquely "Lor."
Jeez! No I would not have seen such a compliment, had you not pointed it out. Speaking of humility,
mine has just amassed to an overflow, leaving a flush of embarrassing pink on my ‘smiling puppy face’ cheeks.
Thank you Mary for the clarification. Truthfully it went unnoticed. My mind added in the word ‘question’ and onward I went . I was reading and not listening, so no ‘garbling’ on my end.
Thank you for the kind words in this beautiful, literary conversation. The end-note on humility / not having all the answers sounds like one of the truest things a writer (or anyone) needs to remember. I'm eager to see your Munro post, Mary, on Thursday!
Speaking of Munro and grief and floating, this reminds me of the Munro story, "Floating Bridge" (in *Hateship, Friendship* etc). Have you read that one, Mary? I wonder if it's like the floating sensation of your grief when you wrote about losing your son (an unimaginable experience). The main character in the story has cancer and allows a boy to drive her home, and the story ends with the car going over a floating bridge, just lingering on the sensation of that, between here and there and who knows where.
Munro makes perfect sense to someone who has had the experience of hovering, realizing we don't have any idea what comes next.
Lovely conversation, you two!
Tara, I do own that collection you mention, but actually I don't recall that story. Will be reading it today. I am so honored by your comment here and your direct invitation for me to write about the incomparable Munro. Isn't Kimberly a marvel! Love to you ~ Mary
You both are! ❤️☺️
Tara, your comments are always so full of insight—I must go digging for this Munro collection. The state of hovering is probably more true in this earthly existence than anything fixed, even though our egos continue to grasp for certainty. Thank you for sharing this image of the floating bridge; a route from here to there but also fluid in its path.
I'm a product of the university workshop system?/industry?, so, Mary's comments about writing workshops struck a nerve--but I'll refrain from ranting. Suffice it to say that I grew mightily sick of a roomful of people telling the writer to write the story as they would have written it. I finally figured out after many years of teaching writing that the traditional workshop model that had been ingrained in me as a student and then a TA wasn't a particularly effective model because it didn't address the goals of the writer for the story or personal essay. Where I finally landed was to call it peer feedback for reader response. Then the writer would explain his or her goals for the story, with the discussion then focusing on effective strategies for closing the gap between reader response and author intent.
I left out a key word: what you said so well. I hope others who read this will take note. Exactly! And the way I teach now and taught at university when I was a professor of Creative Writing. Exactly. Love to you, Liz.
Thanks, Mary!
Exactly. Couldn’t have said it better. I hope others who read your words will take what you’ve so well to heart. That is the way I teach now and how I taught when I was teaching at university. Love to you, Liz.
Thank you, Mary.
Oh, I feel like this conversation surfaces so many layers of humanity and compassion. I only wish I could have been in Mary's classes at the Smithsonian--they sound remarkable.
Love to you, amazing virtual friend.