So many truths unboxed and aired. An intellectual and emotional balm to the madness on the outside. Thank you both. I need to watch this again, so much to agree with and to come to understand.
Yes, absolutely, a massive thanks for that interview Kimberly (and Eleanor), REALLY fascinating. I'll need to watch it again, so much to ponder. It's such a relief to watch something these days and just think, yep, yes, exactly, all the way through :)
I absolutely cannot be reading this right now. These are my writing hours, and I've just burned a ton of time because I can't help it, but I'm stopping. (I'm in the scene in the kitchen now, where Eleanor discovers through Holly that the kitchen is the seat of Eleanor's literary heart.) How could the character not see this? It was obvious to everyone all along. That's where the murder is going to be or the child lost or the marriage saved holding onto each for dear life on the hard tile floor. The kitchen is your umbilical cord, Eleanor.
But, as you write often, Eleanor, "this:"
"It's way bigger than her. And with all of these things. I'm sure you know, Gabor Maté, right? He always starts from a place of—everything you're doing is keeping you safe. Whether it's drinking yourself to death or smashing up the house, he starts from that position where what you are doing is keeping yourself safe. And if you start from that position, you can get inside somebody and understand why they're doing what they're doing. So what Tessa is doing by smashing up the house is keeping herself safe. It might not look like that. It might look like whole self destruction, but actually we are fully designed to survive and keep ourselves safe. And that is literally what she's doing. She's just trying to equalize. It's a bit like when you get the bends, you know, it's like she's trying to equalize the inside with the outside, because no one's listening."
I will catch up later, guys. I need to go lie on my own kitchen floor.
I am saving this interview to have a second listen. Kimberly, you take Eleanor to places within your gentle questions that I too was so excited to hear her answer. And she bravely did not disappoint.
I have not yet read her work. I’m placing this book in my queue to purchase as soon as it’s in print.
The parts of the book both you and she read describe mental illness with a truth that will hopefully awaken many readers. It will also lovingly allow clients to be seen and genuinely witnessed.
Eleanor, your powerful words entice me to write at a depth beyond what I have attained thus far. Thank you for this.
I'll admit, I remember being nervous for this one because Eleanor is wildly intelligent, brave and powerful. Thank goodness for my detailed notes so I could serve a proper pitch and then let her do all the swinging. ;)
I cannot wait for you to read her body of work Teyani!
Oh you. I don’t feel like that person - I feel frightened much of the time. But then we met as two humans who trust each other and all that fear evaporated away. You have a gift for that.
such a great interview and I’m left with two striking points for me.
First is my never-ending respect for novelists like Eleanor, who are able to cultivate the trust to get out of the way—to let the characters speak through them. That courage is remarkable and humbling.
And practically speaking, in my clinical work of dental nursing, I often talk with anxious patients and try very hard to make safe space for them. It really helps me to hear you articulate—so clearly—that our behaviors are all tied to that essential need to keep oneself safe. I really can’t hear that too often or in too many different ways, and I thank you both for that today.
Yes! Remembering this is a key to feeling empathy, reminding ourselves that in many ways our nervous systems developed from those early years when we didn’t have a lot of resources to feel safe yet. Helps me see that frightened child, feel my own, and reach out with a gentle hand. Thanks for your insights Ann!
I loved loved this interview. I can't wait for my copy of In Judgement of Others to arrive and in the meantime it's great to be able to hear Eleanor talk about it.
It was fascinating to read this interview! Thinking about Eleanor's process of inhabiting her characters caused me to imagine doing that myself and I wondered how I would fare. I'm not sure but it seems like the perfect way to help us know and understand them.
Go for it Linda! It's a brave, compassionate task, but seems necessary to bring one's characters into their fullest expression without judgement. Seems it would be healing for those parts of ourselves we've abandoned or judged as well.
I agree. I’ve never believed I could write fiction, so I’m usually writing about myself, or someone I worked with (mixing up details), but I’m going to try it.
Once you get into fiction it becomes obvious that the line between fiction and fact is very blurred. I find the cloak of fiction very useful in allowing me to be more truthful. Characters speak what I daren't say.
Thank you both for this incredible powerful interview, the glimpses into CPTSD (which very much resonate with mine), the insights into your fascinating writing process, Eleanor. Very much looking forward to the book!
I could've spent another hour with Eleanor talking about CPTSD. It's such an important topic and largely misunderstood. I met a physician a few years ago who has dedicated her life to understanding it more, you may want to check out her research: https://chronicillnesstraumastudies.com, or I produced a podcast episode with her if you want to check that out. https://unfixedmedia.com/podcast/episode-7-the-trauma-link
Ditto, I would happily spend hours in conversation with Kimberly on this and any other subject. She creates a space where learning happens. A companion in curiosity. It's a gift.
“Trying to equalise the outside with the inside”
So many truths unboxed and aired. An intellectual and emotional balm to the madness on the outside. Thank you both. I need to watch this again, so much to agree with and to come to understand.
That was one of my favorite one-liners too Jonathan. Though Eleanor is full of them!
Yes, absolutely, a massive thanks for that interview Kimberly (and Eleanor), REALLY fascinating. I'll need to watch it again, so much to ponder. It's such a relief to watch something these days and just think, yep, yes, exactly, all the way through :)
Thanks Jonathan
You were brilliant Eleanor, so much, I loved the whole thing :)
Or as Krishnamurti once said : “ It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”
This quote! It sums up Eleanor's book in one sentence. So true and immensely tragic this is how we measure it.
I absolutely cannot be reading this right now. These are my writing hours, and I've just burned a ton of time because I can't help it, but I'm stopping. (I'm in the scene in the kitchen now, where Eleanor discovers through Holly that the kitchen is the seat of Eleanor's literary heart.) How could the character not see this? It was obvious to everyone all along. That's where the murder is going to be or the child lost or the marriage saved holding onto each for dear life on the hard tile floor. The kitchen is your umbilical cord, Eleanor.
But, as you write often, Eleanor, "this:"
"It's way bigger than her. And with all of these things. I'm sure you know, Gabor Maté, right? He always starts from a place of—everything you're doing is keeping you safe. Whether it's drinking yourself to death or smashing up the house, he starts from that position where what you are doing is keeping yourself safe. And if you start from that position, you can get inside somebody and understand why they're doing what they're doing. So what Tessa is doing by smashing up the house is keeping herself safe. It might not look like that. It might look like whole self destruction, but actually we are fully designed to survive and keep ourselves safe. And that is literally what she's doing. She's just trying to equalize. It's a bit like when you get the bends, you know, it's like she's trying to equalize the inside with the outside, because no one's listening."
I will catch up later, guys. I need to go lie on my own kitchen floor.
Yeh, this paragraph is just… all the things.
Hope you had a blanket down there. Sounds chilly.
🙌🏻❤️
I am saving this interview to have a second listen. Kimberly, you take Eleanor to places within your gentle questions that I too was so excited to hear her answer. And she bravely did not disappoint.
I have not yet read her work. I’m placing this book in my queue to purchase as soon as it’s in print.
The parts of the book both you and she read describe mental illness with a truth that will hopefully awaken many readers. It will also lovingly allow clients to be seen and genuinely witnessed.
Eleanor, your powerful words entice me to write at a depth beyond what I have attained thus far. Thank you for this.
I'll admit, I remember being nervous for this one because Eleanor is wildly intelligent, brave and powerful. Thank goodness for my detailed notes so I could serve a proper pitch and then let her do all the swinging. ;)
I cannot wait for you to read her body of work Teyani!
Oh you. I don’t feel like that person - I feel frightened much of the time. But then we met as two humans who trust each other and all that fear evaporated away. You have a gift for that.
Teyani, thank you. Your response means a lot to me. Wishing you a beautiful day.
I want to quote this whole moving conversation!
I'll start with this..;
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” How true, damn how true!
and this...
"We're all just trying our best to equalize."
Thank you both for a deeply human conversation!
Thank you for being here with us Susie. x
Thanks Susie, glad it connected.
such a great interview and I’m left with two striking points for me.
First is my never-ending respect for novelists like Eleanor, who are able to cultivate the trust to get out of the way—to let the characters speak through them. That courage is remarkable and humbling.
And practically speaking, in my clinical work of dental nursing, I often talk with anxious patients and try very hard to make safe space for them. It really helps me to hear you articulate—so clearly—that our behaviors are all tied to that essential need to keep oneself safe. I really can’t hear that too often or in too many different ways, and I thank you both for that today.
Yes! Remembering this is a key to feeling empathy, reminding ourselves that in many ways our nervous systems developed from those early years when we didn’t have a lot of resources to feel safe yet. Helps me see that frightened child, feel my own, and reach out with a gentle hand. Thanks for your insights Ann!
I loved loved this interview. I can't wait for my copy of In Judgement of Others to arrive and in the meantime it's great to be able to hear Eleanor talk about it.
Thank you!
It's an unforgettable story. So glad you've ordered a copy!
Thank so much.
Eleanor's idea -to let kids be kids, but parents should not tell them lies- could spare them a whole lot of distress.
I think kids are a lot more capable of handling the truth than we give them credit.
They handle the truth waaaay better than lies.
Yup.
It was fascinating to read this interview! Thinking about Eleanor's process of inhabiting her characters caused me to imagine doing that myself and I wondered how I would fare. I'm not sure but it seems like the perfect way to help us know and understand them.
Thanks Linda . Glad you enjoyed.
Go for it Linda! It's a brave, compassionate task, but seems necessary to bring one's characters into their fullest expression without judgement. Seems it would be healing for those parts of ourselves we've abandoned or judged as well.
Yes, exactly this.
I agree. I’ve never believed I could write fiction, so I’m usually writing about myself, or someone I worked with (mixing up details), but I’m going to try it.
Once you get into fiction it becomes obvious that the line between fiction and fact is very blurred. I find the cloak of fiction very useful in allowing me to be more truthful. Characters speak what I daren't say.
I can see that. I have thought of writing that way!
Thank you both for this incredible powerful interview, the glimpses into CPTSD (which very much resonate with mine), the insights into your fascinating writing process, Eleanor. Very much looking forward to the book!
I could've spent another hour with Eleanor talking about CPTSD. It's such an important topic and largely misunderstood. I met a physician a few years ago who has dedicated her life to understanding it more, you may want to check out her research: https://chronicillnesstraumastudies.com, or I produced a podcast episode with her if you want to check that out. https://unfixedmedia.com/podcast/episode-7-the-trauma-link
So glad you have Eleanor's book on order!
Ditto, I would happily spend hours in conversation with Kimberly on this and any other subject. She creates a space where learning happens. A companion in curiosity. It's a gift.
Thank you for the links!
I'll check them out.
Thanks so much Veronica! Jim is adept at getting to the heart of the matter….